Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

At least Ohio is trying to still paint themselves as an attractive place to do business.

I think Jenny gave up. I heard they extended unemployment benefits here. I guess John, Matt and I (Like the only 3 folks in Michigan with a job still) get to pay them.

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Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

^ - you're implying she tried in the first place. To try in the first place would mean she had a clue what she was doing.

The only negative to Hilary not getting the presidency is that she can't take Jenny away.

Goodbye MrScott

John

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

Yea, getting a a little older and actually making some of my own money really has turned me much more conservative. If the government provides everything for you, there is no incentive to work and make yourself better. Communism doesn't work - it's that simple.

And don't even get me started on the taxpayer funded bailouts of these banks that made bad loans to these spendaholics. They've basically privatized the returns and profits and socialized all of the risk.

The idea that everyone has a God given right to own their own home is ridiculous.

I suppose when all of these idiots living in houses they can't afford reach 65 and don't have a nickel saved, we'll be paying for their "right to retire" too.

Dick is right though that the manufacturing jobs aren't going to return. I'm not sure if tourism is their only future, but it's good to see people that aren't crying about the loss of manufacturing jobs and instead looking to bring in new jobs and income streams.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
2003 Magnum Crew
2004 Magnum ATL

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

I enjoy how people take a very complicated situation and make it so they think they understand it.

Then they go spouting off acting as if they actually know what they're talking about. Do some real research and stop watching Faux News all your life.

eat. sleep. ride! - Coaster apparel and accessories!

Ride on, MrScott!

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

Yea the situation is complicated now and Fannie and Freddie have to be bailed out otherwise the implied backing of our government will become worthless, foreign countries won't buy this debt, and our country won't be able to continue consuming more than it can afford as it has been doing for a long time.

It's a complicated mess brought about by ignoring simple principles. These lenders forgot that there is always risk with any investment. They assumed that even if people defaulted on paying their loans, they'd still have the home. And since home values ALWAYS go up and NEVER go down, they'd always be able to sell it for more money than they had loaned out in the first place. So they could give loans to anyone totally risk free. Easy money, right? Oh wait. So then they realize the loans they hold are crap and they pool a bunch of them together (into a big diversified pile of crap) and sell them to other investors who have forgotten about risk. And the process repeats until it is a big complicated mess.

The fact that such a large percentage of our markets are attributed to the "financial" sector which produces NOTHING, ought to be a red flag that something isn't right.

It can all be explained by stick figures.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
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Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

Stick Figures!

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Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

So you're going to blame the liberals for something that has happened under an 8 year GOP reign?

Seriously, that doesn't surprise me coming from a Republican. Maybe if Dubya wasn't so worried about looking for WMDs where there weren't any using bad "intelligence" he or some of his lying cohorts could have foreseen this and nipped it in the bud. But no, they continue to blow billions of dollars on a war that never needed to happen.

eat. sleep. ride! - Coaster apparel and accessories!

Ride on, MrScott!

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

I think Loopy has Bush Derangement Syndrome.

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Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

You're absolutely correct, his administration has made me completely insane as well as many others.

eat. sleep. ride! - Coaster apparel and accessories!

Ride on, MrScott!

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

I agree that the last eight years have not been very "conservative." But the idea that socializing everything is going to make things better makes me cringe. What government program isn't over budget and filled with waste? Is that magically going to change once we elect a socialist president?

I'm all for using tax dollars to build infrastructure like roads, rail, sewer, even R&D for new energy sources, etc because these things all have a good chance to create jobs, improve business,the economy, and our way of life in the future. I'm totally against taking money away from people who have taken risk, worked hard, invented things, created jobs, etc to give it to people who have done nothing just so we can all be equal. It goes against every ideal that this country was built on and takes away the drive to better ourselves as individuals and the country as a whole.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
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2004 Magnum ATL

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

http://cagle.com/working/080801/greenberg21.jpg

Seriously though, we have a moron in office voted for by morons (twice), but there's plenty of blame to go around. Presidents alone make not the failure that the United States is turning into.

And get back to me, Matt, when you've been on unemployment for an extended period of time, and tell me all about how the government is "providing" for you then. That was not my experience, even getting the maximum allowed by law.

No presidential candidate is socialist. Give me a break. Be fiscally conservative, fine, but don't lose your brain in the process.

Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Webmaster - PointBuzz - My Blog - Video

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

I can't imagine Matt going long without work! I kind of see him as being the motivated type to go get any kind of work if he were to lose his current job.

Plus he must be filthy rich and have all sorts of cronies... ya know, being a conservative and all. Oh and he kicks puppies.

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Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

Haha Ben!

But seriously - if you've had a job making good money for years and haven't saved anything in an emergency fund for a rainy day, is it my job to provide for you now because you think you're too good to work at McDonalds?

I would argue that if taxes were lower, people should be able to save more on their own and you wouldn't have to worry about money being wasted by a corrupt government on things other than "providing" for people, and everyone would be better off.

The problem is that people don't save. They want to go on vacations, or overseas, buy $40,000 SUVs, live in houses that cost them 60-70% of their income every month, and then when they lose their job, they are screwed after ONE month of not receiving a paycheck because they never saved a penny.

I've only had a "real" job for three years and although I make a little more now, I've probably averaged about 40k per year over that time. In that time, I've invested $22,000 in a combination of a 401k and a Roth IRA for retirement and I've accumulated an additional $30,000 in cash for an emergency fund to add to the $20,000 that I had when I started. So basically I fed myself, paid rent, drove a used car, went to CP at least 5 times a year from 4 hours away, bought a nice new 46 inch LCD, bought a nice new bed, bought a PS3, took 2-3 trips to somewhere each year, ate out way more than I should, etc all on about 25k per year. Maybe if I bought some new clothes like I probably need to I'd spend an extra grand per year. Imagine how much more I could have saved if I didn't forfeit 25% of every paycheck to taxes!

If I lost my job tomorrow, I'd have enough cash saved after only three years of work to live for at least a year (I'm not saying 2 because I realize I'd have to get myself some health insurance which is expensive), keeping my standard of living the same as it is now, without any trouble. It would drive me insane to see my worth going down every month though so I probably would take a lesser job just so that I wasn't spending every penny I had saved.

People just don't save money in this country. We have a lot of nerve crying about government waste when our society as a whole really isn't any different. We blow everything we make when times are good and then when times are bad, we stick our hand out.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
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Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

Well you certainly deserve a brownie, Matt.

While I agree that the ignorance of society has certainly manifested itself as a rather large part of America, I don't agree that no one can save simply because of "a" choice to live beyond their means.

Have you even looked at interest rates lately? How about when the Fed decided to slash rates left and right, essentially slowing down the ineveitable sinkhole we live in called a recession?

I think there were a lot of people screwed that unfortunately seem to be miscounted under your logic, Matt. I'm speaking primarily on 2008, when many people living well within their means suddenly ended up without jobs, crappy unemployment benefits, (because believe it or not, the government doesn't take care of you), and property values that ended up well below the value at which they were purchased 5, 10 years ago. These people can't save because their savings went to trying to stay afloat in a recession that keeps getting worse. Look at blue-collar especially.

It's great that you made the choices you did, and certainly if everyone had your logic five years ago, maybe the recession would have been a laughable matter. Unfortunately, even the wisest of investors couldn't have predicted we'd be run into the ground as hard as we've been.

You won't believe how it ends.

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

People who live in a black and white world annoy the piss out of me. There aren't very many absolutes I can think of aside from death.

Good for you and all of your financial "success," Matt, and I'll withhold judgment and not ask if you've really lived your life outside of your penny pinching (mostly because I'm not that interested). When I was collecting unemployment in 2001, I had just bought a house, was still paying for my wedding and still paying for student loans. I pretty much did everything right, and because of unemployment I didn't have to tap what little I had saved/invested to any extensive amount. Good thing too, because it took me six months to get another job.

If you want to ask if someone wants fries with that when you lose your job (and trust me, it'll happen eventually), go for it. If you think that's the morally superior way to go, be sure to wash your hands and straighten your name tag. However I strongly believe that **** happens and not having a support system that can prop people up for short periods of time would have catastrophic consequences that would be far more devastating than the asinine lending practices that are leading to mass mortgage default.

Meanwhile, thank you for visiting PointBuzz daily and financing my "summer vacation" between jobs.

Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Webmaster - PointBuzz - My Blog - Video

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

mk522 said:
...slowing down the ineveitable sinkhole we live in called a recession?

...These people can't save because their savings went to trying to stay afloat in a recession that keeps getting worse. Look at blue-collar especially.

...the recession would have been a laughable matter. Unfortunately, even the wisest of investors couldn't have predicted we'd be run into the ground as hard as we've been.

What recession?

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

Jeff said:

Meanwhile, thank you for visiting PointBuzz daily and financing my "summer vacation" between jobs.

Jeff, PM or e-mail me if you are still looking. The company I work for has a senior level position open that may fit with your programming skill set that I have seen.

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

Thanks... I'll drop you a line.

I was thinking some more about this, about why people have such strong opinions about certain issues. Perhaps my response to Matt was harsh, but my underlying thoughts were, "You haven't..." fill in the blanks. Experience plays a huge role in how you roll, and I've had most of the major life experiences as an adult (marriage, divorce, career change, mortgage) and the more troublesome things as a child (divorced parents, food stamps, government assisted childcare) to really see a broader picture. So even doing very well for myself, I can't just forget what I've been through.

But it does relate to the other thread in the general section about energy conservation, where some feel it's just OK to do whatever you feel without consequence. We're culturally programmed to not consider that which we don't experience. Some people (especially politicians) seem to simply ignore their experience or the experiences of others, which is also troublesome. You'd think that the experience would allow you to see a more complex world and stop you from looking for the easy solution to everything.

It's a strange world.

Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Webmaster - PointBuzz - My Blog - Video

Re: Kinzel touts Ohio business climate

And I didn't mean to imply that you had inferior morals if you collected unemployment instead of working at McDonalds either! The system does exist, you've probably paid more than your share into it, so I don't think it's wrong to use the system in tough times. It's more of a difference in philosophy. I think people will do what it takes to survive and that I am the one who can act in my own best interest and therefore I'd prefer to save myself for a rainy day rather than have a big government run "rainy day fund."

Experience definitely does play a roll and being brought up a certain way definitely has shaped the way I think and act now. I always thought my dad was a cheap ass when I was growing up, but while maybe we didn't take huge vacations or drive the fanciest cars or even have the latest toys, he was saving for my education and his retirement at the same time. Now I'm educated with a manageable debt load and he is retired at age 57 and I can appreciate what he was doing.

At the same time, I had an uncle who was in and out of drug rehab, on welfare, food stamps, etc and couldn't keep himself off drugs long enough to hold a job for any significant amount of time, despite being fortunate enough to have some decent opportunities along the way. He was the definition of a drain on society not for six months, but 20 years. He certainly wasn't living the good life with assistance programs and probably did have some sort of legitimate issues that maybe caused all of his problems, but it didn't give me the warm fuzzies about any type of social program that let people collect whatever it may be without working.

Ironically, while we may disagree on this one, we agree for the most part when it comes to the energy conservation issue I think. Just as I get annoyed at how some people behave with their money, I get annoyed at the blatent disregard for the environment as well. The cigarette butt thing has always been a huge pet peeve of mine. The conservative in me would say there is no need for a bunch of government regulation when it comes to energy and the environment, but based on how people behave sometimes, maybe it is necessary (although I think there are bigger fish to fry than choice of light bulbs). I agree there is little vision or sense of caring about the future. It seems like maybe Detriot is starting to listen now with the cars they are working on, but I think it may be too late and maybe other industries in the country should take that as a lesson and be a little more proactive, rather than reactive.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
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