Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

Does that mean there will be more emphasis on familyattractions instead of roller coasters?
No, we're always going to try and appeal to thethrill market.

Sigh. Wrong answer. His vision of what success is is so narrow. I mean, look at all of the we-do-this-at-Cedar-Point answers in there. Great, you have land at those other properties, but where is the data to indicate building a hotel is a good idea? Those properties are not virtually on an island.

He really does not inspire confidence in me, unfortunately.

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Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Webmaster - PointBuzz - My Blog

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

I suspect he was trying to say that the chain wasn't emphasizing family attractions at the expense of abandoning thrill rides. Kinzel seems to have a tendency to not fully evaluate the things that come out of his mouth at times. But everything they've been doing (see Planet Snoopy, see the new brochure with "Family" practically stamped all over it, see the new family-friendly commercial) suggests that this is indeed their current emphasis.

Building a resort at CW would be an unmitigated mistake, at least if it were run according to the mediocre standards of CP's hotels. If he thinks they could just use what works in Sandusky (where they have a captive audience on the peninsula) and apply it in a world-class destination like Toronto, he is just wrong, wrong, wrong. There is no way they could get away with it and keep the beds full.

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Mike
R.I.P. Geauga Lake: 1888-2007.

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

"Cashless resorts." I hope he is trademarking that. What an innovative idea.

Oh wait, you mean this isn't 1995?

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"You can dream, create, design and build the most wonderful place in the world...but it requires people to make the dreams a reality."

-Walt Disney

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

Agreed it was long overdue but I'm sure glad to hear its in the pipeline.

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Future CP riders born August 26, 2004: Luke and Logan Cameron!
Another future CP rider born February 28, 2007: Kyle Cameron!
Camper Village/Lighthouse Point Front Desk 2004

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

OK, for example, did Canada's Wonderland need Behemoth? Don't get me wrong, I'm tickled to death that they built it, but the fact that the park could for many years have higher attendance than CP and not have any big deal coasters says something to me about the big ride strategy.

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Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Webmaster - PointBuzz - My Blog

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

Not that this is an extensive survey, But, the people standing in front of me and behind me in line for Behemoth on opening day said that they very often went to Darien Lake because they'd rather ride "Ride of Steel" than go to Canadas Wonderland.

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115 Parks, 495 Different Coasters in 25 States, Miles Traveled: 46,233
http://www.rollercoasterfreak.com

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

And that's fine, but they were doing 3 to 3.5 million a year anyway.

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Jeff - Advocate of Great Great Tunnels™ - Co-Webmaster - PointBuzz - My Blog

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

Mathematically, at $40 percap they need 525,000 extra admissions over its lifetime (20+ years) to pay for Behemoth (not counting operating expenses).

If Behemoth causes a 10% hike this year that would be 325,000 admissions. A 5% increase over last year (i.e. losing 50% of the increase) next year would pretty much pay for the thing--again, not counting operating expenses.

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This Isn't A Hospital--It's An Insane Asylum!

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

I wish I knew, or was a good cartoonist, because after reading that, I'd love to have a cartoon rendering of Kinzel standing on the Main Midway holding someone upside down and shaking the money out of their pockets!

Last edited by Tennessee_CP_Fan, May 13, 2008, 11:12A

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Nick

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

...Which is odd, because on the whole, Cedar Fair tends to not do nearly so many rides that go upside down a lot.

(you want shake? Try the original Tomb Raider program at Kings Island...)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

Kinzel also talks about looking at ways to have a debit card inside the water parks so that people don't have to carry cash to spend money. I'm surprised that they haven't come up with something for this yet. Thunder Falls in Mackinaw City lets you put money on your wrist band. Then your wrist band acts like a debit card for your stay. On the way out of the park, they give back any balance that still remains on your wrist band. It seems to work quite well. I don't see why Cedar Fair couldn't implement a similar system pretty easily.

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...and enjoy the rest of your day at Cedar Point, The Am-aaaa-zement park!

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

While most of the "innovations" Kinzel mentioned have been possible for quite some time now, I am at least happy to see him finally considering tech upgrades as a viable investment.

I also have to agree with Jeff, in that every year, I lose confidence in Kinzel and his way of doing things. I will say, though, that despite the overreaching hand of Falfas, and corporate in general, this year seems to be off on a good foot operationally, though definitely not mechanically.

And while corporate is on my mind, working at the Matterhorn triangle, I get the unlucky privilege of staring at the construction on the new corporate offices every day. Why they cannot stand to take their hands out of micromanagement still confounds me, and I am disappointed every minute I look at that thinking that now even more full timers will have the chance to be involved in the micromanagement.

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Blue Streak crew 2007
ATL Matterhorn Tri. 2008
Three things you need to fix anything in the universe: duct tape, WD-40, and a hammer. Duct tape if it moves and it shouldn't, WD-40 if it doesn't move and should, and the hammer as the last resort.

Re: Cedar Fair boss says expansion is on hold

"

How do you know what guests want?

We take surveys every day in all of our parks. At the end of the year, we compare all of the parks. We ask leading questions that help us in our decision making. They'll let you know if they're paying too much or if they've had a bad day. "

And look how well CF and Kinzel listen to that feedback. Opening weekend wasn't that long ago, and we already have a nine page discussion on the outrageous prices of food.

His statements about the balance sheet and not having money, with a lot of debt, worries me.

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Owner: Gould Photography